The Bottom of Division 1

[jrbrooks]

So after about a year of hardcore studying I have learned all of my 3's, 4's, 5's, the top 4,000 7's and the top 2,000 8's. After my last two tournaments playing in Division 2, I feel like unless something goes incredibly awry and I draw very poorly, I will always at the least be competitive to place in Division 2.

After my last tourney, however (that I didn't win) my performance was good enough to catapult me above 1500, which is frequently good enough to seed me near the very bottom of Division 1. I can safely say I do not feel like a Division 1 player. Sure, I may be able to beat the average Division 1 player about 25-30% of the time (maybe I am being overly gracious to myself here) but over the long haul, my word knowledge just isn't high enough. And then, throw in the fact that I would now be playing against elite players who I could beat maybe 1 in 10 times (or 1 in 50 for some of them I am sure) then I really don't see the point anymore. If I go to a tournament I am going to be way outclassed and I will basically just be throwing my money away.

Sure, you can argue that it is motivation to study, but I don't need motivation to study. I do that on my own already. I know about 7% of the 8's and about 24% of the 7's, and none of the 6's (yet), so I feel like I am going into a gunfight with a knife, and in some cases an unsharpened butter knife.

So my question is.... for those of you in my situation, what motivates you to continue playing in tournaments where you know you have little (<2%) chance to win? I do play for fun, but I can do that online or at club. I don't need to pay $100+ for entry fees and God knows how much for a hotel room to do that. Please educate me because I can see myself getting discouraged at being the whipping boy for the Scrabble "pros" in the future.

[njdevil44]

So my question is.... for those of you in my situation, what motivates you to continue playing in tournaments where you know you have little (<2%) chance to win? I do play for fun, but I can do that online or at club. I don't need to pay $100+ for entry fees and God knows how much for a hotel room to do that. Please educate me because I can see myself getting discouraged at being the whipping boy for the Scrabble "pros" in the future.

I had a similar experience earlier this year where my rating catapulted up to 1560 after 3 tourneys, which qualified me for the bottom of D1 at Columbia, SC. I got throttled: 3-12, -703. I obviously wasn't ready for D1 just yet, but it was a very valuable learning experience. The fastest way to get better is to play people who are better than you. I'll be in a similar situation this weekend in Alpharetta. I could have played in D2 and have a great shot at cashing, but I'm of the mindset that I should be able to compete in D1, so that's where I belong, even if I'm not good enough to win there barring the greatest streak of luck. You'll never know if you will be the whipping boy unless you go out there and find out. You may surprise yourself. Also you may get cool stories like David Gibson playing a 10 on you .

Also, while improving your word knowledge is always beneficial, it's not the only thing that decides who wins or loses a game of Scrabble. Board vision and strategic considerations are more important. Take it from someone whose Jumbletime skills are much higher than his Scrabble playing ability (Scrability*?). If you put in the work in all facets, eventually you'll become an "average" D1 player. That's my short-term goal for now anyway. Hope this was at all helpful.

[Yarn Chief Sr]

Words are awesome. Studying words is fun. That's why I do it.

It sucks that there are divisions for this very reason. You are punished for getting better. Most experts have been there. I'm going to my tourney this weekend without expectation for this very reason. Seeing two 1900 players and an 1800, and me just having my ass handed to me by a field with an average rating 300 below me the week before -- well, no, I'm just going for fun, to see how well I can do. And of course, there's always another benchmark. 1800 is in reach for me, so there's that.

Because there's no sponsorship, you really have to see it as fun in order to play.

[rsiegel]

What's wrong with getting your ass beat around (and hopefully learning something), then you'll be in Division 2 in your next tourney, cash and climb back up, ass beat, cash and climb, ad infinitum?

[Yarn Chief Sr]

The people who get their ass beat in D1 and then go back and cash in D2 only to get their ass beat in D1 again haven't learned anything. That's the problem. It doesn't take a lot to win D2. It takes a lot more effort to get good enough to stay out of D2, and sadly, that effort isn't rewarded.

[trashman]

The people who get their ass beat in D1 and then go back and cash in D2 only to get their ass beat in D1 again haven't learned anything. That's the problem. It doesn't take a lot to win D2. It takes a lot more effort to get good enough to stay out of D2, and sadly, that effort isn't rewarded.

You're always learning in this game, regardless of what level you're at (well, hopefully). And I would argue it does take a lot to win D2. And "reward" (assuming you mean financial) is not the reason most of us play.

Do your best, given your current skill set. Then try to learn more and improve. What more can anyone strive for, whether in Scrabble or in life?

[jrbrooks]

I personally can care less about the cash. If we could have tournaments where the only entry fee was to cover the cost of the building, I would be OK with that.

On a related topic, I find it amazing that there were 22 players in my last tournament, all paying $100 or $110 for a total of about $2300ish, yet only about $1100 in prize money. That's over half of the prize fund for the tourney room and random fees..... That all being said, IF I am going to pay over $100 to play in a tournament I do not want to just give my money away. It's not that the money matters, it's just the principle of the matter that I am paying a bunch of money with no chance to win, but a "lesser" player (I say this in terms of ratings only) has a great chance to make a big chunk of change.

I feel like I am paying a bunch of money just to get my ass kicked, and thus being punished for studying, while others who may not have put in those same hours get rewarded. I can play online or at club and receive those exact same ass beatings and not have to pay a bunch of entry fees, room charges, etc. That's why I posed the question I did in this thread. It appears as if there is no answer other than, "Just deal with it."

[medropout]

It appears as if there is no answer other than, "Just deal with it."

Pretty much.

[trashman]

So after about a year of hardcore studying I have learned all of my 3's, 4's, 5's, the top 4,000 7's and the top 2,000 8's...

You've barely scratched the surface. That's not "hardcore", that's barely a foundation. To compete in D1, you need to have the top 5K 7's and 8's at minimum, preferably top 10K. Ideally, you need to get through the whole bloody dictionary.

If you want to be more competitive in D1, it's pretty simple: learn more bingos. I guarantee you're missing tons of playable 8's (and probably plenty of 7's, as well) now. Missing them will cost you wins.

And the only way to know what you're missing is to record your racks, and analyze your games. Don't want to do it? Then you don't want to become an expert.

The good news is that if you add only 100 new words per day, you'll get pretty deep into the 7's and 8's within another year.

Few players become experts overnight. It takes years, and lots of patience and study. There's no shortcut, just dedication to learn more and persist. You will get there someday, but until you do, get used to the journey being long and difficult at times.

Though it's tougher to win the higher you go, the pure joy of finding obscure words, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, and occasionally knocking off 1900+ players should remind you just how fun it all can be. Don't ever lose sight of why you play the game, and if it ever stops being fun, take up something easier.

That's what you need to deal with...

[jrbrooks]

I never said my knowledge level was hardcore, I said the amount I studied was. I understand there is a lot more to learn, you don't have to try and rain on my parade.

Anyone who can actually learn 100 new words a day is..... more than a genius. 100 words a day for a year is 36,500 words. Hell, there are only 55,000 total 7/8 letter words combined. I would dare say there is almost nobody who can actually learn that many words that quickly. Sure, you can dump them into a cardbox, but I would be willing to bet the rate of commitment is probably around 10%.

[trashman]

... I would be willing to bet the rate of commitment is probably around 10%.

Not if you study methodically using spacial learning. Both cardbox mode in Zyzzyva and SuperMemo use the same algorithms (I think), so that words you miss get seen more often. It's the repetitive nature of seeing unfamiliar alphagrams that burns the words into the recesses of your brain, so you can then (hopefully) pull them out of your ass when needed. It's a proven, highly effective method.

Another advantage of this method is that any words that get forgotten over time will immediately be brought back to the forefront. To be forgotten later, of course

[slipkin]

Anyone who can actually learn 100 new words a day is..... more than a genius. 100 words a day for a year is 36,500 words.

I'm not a genius, but I was running close to that when I was studying hardest.

One day, long ago, I had a discussion similar to this in my head. I realized that at my current study pace, I wouldn't know my target set of words for some number of years, and that was depressing. Then I realized that, on that future date, I could either say "done!" or "it was too hard; I didn't do it."

That date was several years ago. I still win only about half my games in Division 1, but I'm glad I know those words.

[jrbrooks]

Maybe I am just doing something wrong. I am not dumb by any stretch.... just as a reference point, and not to toot my own horn in any way, I had a 3.9 in Mech Engineering at NC State and I got a 1450ish on my SAT (back when it was on a scale of 1600 max). In other words, I am far from dumb and have always been a quick learner. I add about 10-20 new words each day, and I still have trouble keeping up with the cardbox, and my success rate is usually only about 85-92%. I have tried adding more but they just get too overwhelming.

[slipkin]

When you wake up in the morning, how many words are in your cardbox (assuming you cleared it out the previous day)?

[trashman]

I use SuperMemo, not Zyzzyva. Every other day, I add a database of 200 words, which SM then splits in half, so I see half of them on day 1 and the other half on day 2. I get tested on roughly 500 words per day, which takes roughly an hour daily.

One of the advantages of SM is its portability. I use bathroom breaks to study, and clean up whatever remains (the words, not the bathroom breaks ) before midnight, when it all starts again. It's usually dry and dull, but it's very doable, and is simply a part of my daily routine.

500 words daily is hardly overwhelming, especially if you only allow 5-10 seconds per word. My recall rate is well over 90%, though it was probably closer to 70% when I started studying years ago.

I've been through virtually all of the 7's and 80% of the 8's, and have started back from the beginning again. I started with a clean slate only a few months ago, and I've already committed the top 6000 7's and 8's. I expect to get through 10K by the end of the year, and the whole dictionary again sometime next year. I'm also hardly a genius, but I love the game, and I've definitely improved, though I'm hardly a top expert. Still working on that...

I still feel the need to refresh myself on the 3's and 4's...

[synodalhaj]

Anyone who can actually learn 100 new words a day is..... more than a genius. 100 words a day for a year is 36,500 words. Hell, there are only 55,000 total 7/8 letter words combined. I would dare say there is almost nobody who can actually learn that many words that quickly. Sure, you can dump them into a cardbox, but I would be willing to bet the rate of commitment is probably around 10%.

Hardly. It just takes some commitment over the course of a couple of years.

See the thread at: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=159